Comments on: Crowdsourcing my OS Bridge Talk Proposal http://blog.schmichael.com/2009/03/29/crowdsourcing-my-os-bridge-talk-proposal/ good good study, day day up Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:20:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Michael Schurter http://blog.schmichael.com/2009/03/29/crowdsourcing-my-os-bridge-talk-proposal/comment-page-1/#comment-45112 Michael Schurter Sat, 04 Apr 2009 16:20:01 +0000 http://michael.susens-schurter.com/blog/?p=607#comment-45112 @Graham: Thanks for the tips. If my talk gets accepted I'll make sure to post results and configurations as I go. Hopefully I'll also remember to post them to their respective project's mailing list as well so maintainers like you can help make sure I'm reproducing realistic conditions. @Graham: Thanks for the tips. If my talk gets accepted I’ll make sure to post results and configurations as I go. Hopefully I’ll also remember to post them to their respective project’s mailing list as well so maintainers like you can help make sure I’m reproducing realistic conditions.

]]> By: Graham Dumpleton http://blog.schmichael.com/2009/03/29/crowdsourcing-my-os-bridge-talk-proposal/comment-page-1/#comment-45098 Graham Dumpleton Sat, 04 Apr 2009 09:19:48 +0000 http://michael.susens-schurter.com/blog/?p=607#comment-45098 Just keep in mind that Apache/mod_wsgi has two modes of operation. The daemon mode is the safer option as harder to do too much wrong. With embedded mode you have to be careful, just as with mod_python, that the Apache MPM settings are tuned properly for fat Python web applications. See 'http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2009/03/load-spikes-and-excessive-memory-usage.html'. Also watch out when comparing different options where one preloads an application and another performs lazy loading. If one isn't careful and take this into consideration, and so the initial loading is counted in the request times, it can make a solution appear worse than it is, when in reality it is only an issue for the first requests. Strive therefore to configure systems to preload where they can. Just keep in mind that Apache/mod_wsgi has two modes of operation. The daemon mode is the safer option as harder to do too much wrong. With embedded mode you have to be careful, just as with mod_python, that the Apache MPM settings are tuned properly for fat Python web applications. See ‘http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2009/03/load-spikes-and-excessive-memory-usage.html’. Also watch out when comparing different options where one preloads an application and another performs lazy loading. If one isn’t careful and take this into consideration, and so the initial loading is counted in the request times, it can make a solution appear worse than it is, when in reality it is only an issue for the first requests. Strive therefore to configure systems to preload where they can.

]]> By: Michael Schurter http://blog.schmichael.com/2009/03/29/crowdsourcing-my-os-bridge-talk-proposal/comment-page-1/#comment-44919 Michael Schurter Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:10:57 +0000 http://michael.susens-schurter.com/blog/?p=607#comment-44919 @Micah: Comparing cross-hosting-providers would definitely be interesting, but each new level of tests basically increases my talks complexity and density exponentially. Since this is an open source conference I'd rather focus on just the "higher" software stack rather than including the hosting provider platform which in some cases introduces proprietary components (I'm looking at you GAE). You bring up an interesting point about the benchmark suite. The more successful I am at automating my build out and benchmarking, the more technologies and configurations I'll be able to test. Hopefully at the end of all this I'll have a benchmarking suite to release that would allow others to extend my work to cover compare things like GAE vs. EC2 or Linux vs. *BSD. @Micah: Comparing cross-hosting-providers would definitely be interesting, but each new level of tests basically increases my talks complexity and density exponentially. Since this is an open source conference I’d rather focus on just the “higher” software stack rather than including the hosting provider platform which in some cases introduces proprietary components (I’m looking at you GAE).

You bring up an interesting point about the benchmark suite. The more successful I am at automating my build out and benchmarking, the more technologies and configurations I’ll be able to test. Hopefully at the end of all this I’ll have a benchmarking suite to release that would allow others to extend my work to cover compare things like GAE vs. EC2 or Linux vs. *BSD.

]]> By: Micah Elliott http://blog.schmichael.com/2009/03/29/crowdsourcing-my-os-bridge-talk-proposal/comment-page-1/#comment-44916 Micah Elliott Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:39:55 +0000 http://michael.susens-schurter.com/blog/?p=607#comment-44916 If you want to add another parameter, you could add a higher level to compare similar configurations among today's popular web hosts: mediatemple, webfaction, slicehost, linode, GAE, and EC2. Those are obviously not apples-to-apples comparisons, but it would be great to see some practical benchmarks applied to the various services offering the different types of hosting. Even if they could be inferred by the configs they advertise. If you really want to put a lot of effort into this, you're headed towards having a real benchmark suite. So maybe keep the possibility in mind when you prepare your tests. If you want to add another parameter, you could add a higher level to compare similar configurations among today’s popular web hosts: mediatemple, webfaction, slicehost, linode, GAE, and EC2. Those are obviously not apples-to-apples comparisons, but it would be great to see some practical benchmarks applied to the various services offering the different types of hosting. Even if they could be inferred by the configs they advertise.

If you really want to put a lot of effort into this, you’re headed towards having a real benchmark suite. So maybe keep the possibility in mind when you prepare your tests.

]]> By: Michael Schurter http://blog.schmichael.com/2009/03/29/crowdsourcing-my-os-bridge-talk-proposal/comment-page-1/#comment-44899 Michael Schurter Mon, 30 Mar 2009 05:59:05 +0000 http://michael.susens-schurter.com/blog/?p=607#comment-44899 @thesethings: Thanks for the positive feedback. Yeah, I'm really hoping to address the subject as objectively and practically as possible. I don't think anyone would be happy if the talk somehow turned into a Django vs. RoR or Apache vs. Lighttpd deathmatch. Load balancing does make things more complicated. I think I'd probably just address that briefly as in: "Running a load balancer could mitigate bottlenecks like this." (where "this" is something like servers/applications with poor concurrency). There's so much variability these days I'm just going to have to hand wave at some point. :-) @thesethings: Thanks for the positive feedback. Yeah, I’m really hoping to address the subject as objectively and practically as possible. I don’t think anyone would be happy if the talk somehow turned into a Django vs. RoR or Apache vs. Lighttpd deathmatch.

Load balancing does make things more complicated. I think I’d probably just address that briefly as in: “Running a load balancer could mitigate bottlenecks like this.” (where “this” is something like servers/applications with poor concurrency).

There’s so much variability these days I’m just going to have to hand wave at some point. :-)

]]> By: thesethings http://blog.schmichael.com/2009/03/29/crowdsourcing-my-os-bridge-talk-proposal/comment-page-1/#comment-44897 thesethings Mon, 30 Mar 2009 05:47:16 +0000 http://michael.susens-schurter.com/blog/?p=607#comment-44897 It seems like one thing supporting the proliferation of web servers, is the disparate uses. Load-balancing/proxy/reverse-proxying is becoming more and more common, even for very simple, not-so-big sites. (I recently read a great post advocating for a load-balancer helping even a single-server site, and it made sense! :D ) In any case, I'd love a talk that didn't feel obligated to compare these servers apples-to-apples, but rather addressed the places each server fits best, major sites using them, etc. It seems like one thing supporting the proliferation of web servers, is the disparate uses. Load-balancing/proxy/reverse-proxying is becoming more and more common, even for very simple, not-so-big sites. (I recently read a great post advocating for a load-balancer helping even a single-server site, and it made sense! :D )
In any case, I’d love a talk that didn’t feel obligated to compare these servers apples-to-apples, but rather addressed the places each server fits best, major sites using them, etc.

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